I want to start a discussion on Christian Pacifism.
A while ago, John Piper wrote a blog post about Guns and Martyrdom. James White responded. Piper’s blog post was very pacifistic in nature. James White’s was not. You can read Piper’s blog post here, and James White’s response here.
I agree with John Piper on most things. However, I can’t help but disagree with him on this one. My position on the issue is a lot closer to White’s. I think the Bible has mandated that we protect those whose lives are being endangered by malicious people, and sometimes this involves using force, even lethal force.
I would like to hear what other Christians think. Would you align yourself more with John Piper or James White? Is it ever okay to use violent force in situations of self-defense and defense of other innocent people? If you were at home and a criminal entered your home what would you do?
This is a complex issue. There are texts in the Bible that seem to support both sides of the argument. Lets hear what you think.
Dorian
thanks Bryce for opening up this subject…you and I and Scott had a brief discussion already.
after reading both blog posts from Piper and White it is clear that White put more thought and time into his blog. I am sure the Piper could expand much more and find Biblical support. As you know I tend to side with White on this one. It seems that there is much difference between Martyrdom and lack of preparation. Using another analogy…it would be great glory to God if I was die of exposure taking the gospel to the people of Nepal as I treked thorough the mtns, and yet great dishonor to God if I was to die of exposure treking through those hills on a site seeing trip because I was not clothed properly. We are exhorted in scripture to be PREPARED, and this preparation I would think should be in all areas of our lives.
thanks again for this post.
brent
Thanks for the response Brent. Like I said when we discussed this in person, I’m really not sure how I would react if I was ever faced with the scenario of an intruder breaking into my home. I know for sure that I would grab my weapon but I’m not sure if, how, or when I would use it.
I like to think that I would not shoot at a person who was only in my house to steal my computer or something, but then again…how do I know if a person is there to steal something or to harm my family? I think that more often than not, I would err on the side of caution. There would have to be pretty significant and obvious evidence that the person was not physically endangering my family for me NOT to use my weapon.
I really don’t know how a pacifist can make a blanket statement saying that it is NEVER okay to fight and even in some instances kill somebody. If they said that, I would respond by asking them if they love their pacifism more than they love their family. Some situation require forceful responses. May the Lord grant that we never have to live out the situations that we are discussing.
Thanks again for the response.
I read your post, read both the posts by Piper and White (both men whom I deeply respect and have learned much from) and don’t know exactly where I come down on the issue. I fully support the right to bear arms, along with that the lawful use of them – even in self-defense. However, I also think I understand what Piper was saying in his post. I think he was addressing the use of the economic stimulus check as well as his reasoning on why not to purchase a firearm. White went into a little more detail in his disagreement.
I certainly don’t think it demonstrates a lack of faith in God or His protection by arming one’s self. I know that I would hate to find myself in a situation that demanded I use a firearm on another human being.
God’s grace to handle these situations would suffice – and I think decisions made in faith, in light of Scripture, are valid.
Thanks for the comment Mark. I find it odd that Piper didn’t qualify his statements a little bit more. It is unlike him to make such blanket statements without at least qualifying a little bit.
Because Piper didn’t qualify his statements at all, it is hard to know exactly where he stands on this issue. However, I dostrongly disagree with the sentiment expressed in this particular post. This sort of extreme pacifism is wicked.
Thanks again for the comment.
I would probably agree more with Piper from a Christian standpoint.
From a strictly American standpoint I think we should all be able to have guns and use them in self defense.
But as a follower of Christ I would have a really, really hard time killing someone. If it came down to my wife dying or me killing someone, clearly I would kill someone. But I don’t need a gun to live in fear that a situation like that may arise. Owning a gun for self defense is something I used to want to do, but I am starting to lean more into a position like Piper’s.
Andrew, I would challenge the notion that owning a gun is living in fear. Is owning insurance living in fear? Is saving money living in fear?
If someone were to break into your home and attack your wife and you did not have a gun wouldn’t you simply grab some other weapon and use it? If that is so, what is the difference except that a gun is a much more formidable deterrent?
Andrew, also if you say that you would kill someone who is trying to kill your wife you don’t agree with Piper all that much except for the gun piece.